GIs for Peace and the Antiwar Movement
“Thank You for Your Service (for Peace)”
Thursday, November 9, 6 p.m. EST
18:00:14 From Jean Pfaelzer to Hosts and panelists : Great work Paul and co! warmly Jeannie Pfaelzer
18:01:24 From James M Branum to Hosts and panelists : So nice to see you Kathy!
18:02:17 From cheryl h to Hosts and panelists : Greetings and thank you for hosting this webinar and all of your work towards creating the world we all deserve! I hope this will be recorded because I have a medical appointment so unfortunately cannot stay long.💖
18:02:44 From Terry Murray to Hosts and panelists : Around the *world*! I’m in Canada.
18:05:22 From Mike Ferner to Hosts and panelists : THANK YOU FOR ORGANIZING THIS AND PRESENTING! What a valuable service to history. Mike Ferner, VFP
18:10:05 From Andy Berman to Hosts and panelists : As a Vietnam-era GI war resister whose punishment was greatly mitigated by the support of the civilian antiwar movement, I wonder how can former military resisters and their peace movement supporters might use their experiences and moral authority to support Russian soldiers and Russian protesters who oppose their country's horrific aggression in Ukraine? These heroic Russians need to hear and see support from the US peace movement instead of its repetitions of Putin’s narrative that NATO started the war. – Andy Berman
18:20:03 From Andy Berman to Hosts and panelists : Susan Schnall, why won't Veterans for Peace demand from Putin what we demanded from Nixon: BRING THE TROOPS HOME NOW.? The United Nations has demanded by a vote 141-7 for "immediate and unconditional withdrawal of Russian troops from Ukraine". Yet VFP often repeats Putin's narrative the NATO started the war and refuses to support what the UN demands.
18:34:59 From Mike Ferner to Hosts and panelists : John Kent-- thank you for your story. I hope you'll join VFP. Mike Ferner, HM3, USS Hancock
18:40:53 From Mike Ferner to Hosts and panelists : Kathy, thank you! The Pacific Counseling Service in Oakland was very helpful when I was getting out as a C.O. Bless all those counselors, ACLU, NLG. Mike Ferner USS Hancock CVA-19 out of Alameda. And I DO remember "Turning the Regs Around." I used the regs to drive the brass crazy on the carrier while waiting for them to rule on my C.O. application.
18:42:43 From Mike Ferner to Hosts and panelists : JJ-- Thank you so much. We were in a brief zoom call when Tarak Kauff wanted you to help with "Peace in Our Times" and "Peace and Planet News." I'd appreciate being able to correspond with you. Mike Ferner, VFP
18:45:54 From Steve Morse : I want to provide the link to what I believe is the largest collection of the GI underground press from the Viet Nam War, which was compiled by James Lewes - https://www.jstor.org/site/reveal-digital/independent-voices/gi-press/?searchkey=1699570735251
18:48:17 From Gary Ghirardi : Could Veterans for Peace chapters be interested in assisting the following project?
Elective Military Corps Programs in Schools Should Not Be Forced Upon Minority and Low-income Students JROTC is a program taught in 3500 high schools across the country by retired military officers. The Pentagon has claimed that JROTC is supposed to be an elective. TheNew York Times found that thousands of public school students were being funneled into JROTC classes without ever having chosen them.
The TECMITS project seeks to identify schools where youth are placed involuntarily. Elizabeth Frank from the support team on this task force's outreach is willing to followup if school districts are identified taking part in this practice of violating student rights and parental consent.
#JROTC #RespectParentalChoice
https://endcom.org/
18:49:39 From Dana Moss : To echo Paul's comment - thank you John Kent for your incredible work on making this movement visible on Wikipedia!!!
18:51:07 From Nancy Wechsler : Paul was on the board of RESIST when I worked there.
18:51:20 From Mike Ferner to Hosts and panelists : Gary, plz send me an email on this so I don't lose it here. mike@veteransforpeace.org here in Toledo we worked for a couple years to get the f...g recruiters out of the public schools.
18:52:52 From John McAuliff to Fred Gardner and all panelists : Do you want me to recognize you to speak for a couple of minutes?
18:53:03 From Daniel Dlugose : During my time in the Pacific I lived on Guam in 1997 and knew that every night the B-52s would be flying round trop to flatten Hanoi. When I got to my Hospital ship- Sanctuary AH-17, one of the patients was a toddler whose leg was burnt and charred with Napalm. Later I had no respect for any military authorities, of other Navy people from Warrant officers and up.
18:54:55 From Matthew Rinaldi : There was no "grass" smoked at the coffe houses/
18:58:48 From Mike Ferner : On the USS Hancock, the Marines were guarding the main reduction gear after someone on the Ranger dropped in some bolts and kept it in drydock in Alameda for months. On my first cruise out of the base, a friend took me on a tour. On the hangar deck I noticed Marines standing at rest between the fighter jets with M-1s. I asked my friend "who are they guarding the planes from?" He responded "from us." I loved it!
18:59:09 From Andy Berman to Hosts and panelists : Paul, I was in Basic Training in Fort Lewis when the vets in Washington DC threw their medals over the fence to Congress. The mood of the new recruits in Basic Training was exceedingly sober!
19:01:18 From Mike Ferner : Pacific Counseling Service helped me get out as a C.O. and the ACLU represented me on the 1st amendment case when I got busted for circulating a petition to Ron Dellums for a Congressional investigation to keep the USS Hancock from going back to Viet Nam. Bless them all!
19:01:25 From Andy Berman to Hosts and panelists : Kudos to LMDC Lawyers Military Defense Committe which based in Germany did tremendous work in support of dissident GIs.
19:01:51 From Lynn Estomin : To see writing/poetry by Iraq/Afghanistan vets, as well as some Vietnam era vets, check out www.warriorwriters.org
19:01:54 From Michael Turek : How can we get our stories out into the mainstream? I've found most people who were not in the military during the Vietnam War or active against the war are not interested. A couple of years ago I offered a lecture in our local Osher Life Long Learning (OLLI) program on the GI Peace Movement, four people showed up.
19:02:54 From Elise Lemire : I just chaired a panel with the members of VVAW who organized Operation POW. Two audience members claimed that they had been called baby killers. This and the spitting never happened, right? So how do you handle those claims when people make them?
19:03:47 From Jack Malinowski to Hosts and panelists : What a great panel of speakers! Thank you.
19:04:04 From Mike Ferner : Before I got out, I was always happy to see demonstrations. On Armed Farces Day 1972, at the Great Lakes Naval Hospital, there was a great demo around the base. I was living in base housing with my wife and got busted for hanging a hospital sheet with a big peace sign painted on it, on the fence facing the street. That was the first thing I did as a resister and it felt great!
19:05:44 From Lee Lee to Hosts and panelists : What are search terms for Wikipedia that you are referencing or please post links
19:05:48 From Robert Levering : Vets led the 1969 Mobe march on Washington as David Cortright describes in "The Movement and the 'Madman'" documentary film.
19:06:15 From John Catalinotto to Hosts and panelists : I organized with the American Servicemen’s Union — in 1968 and definitely by the time of the big protests in the fall of 1969, we were overwhelmed with invitations from all sorts of peace movement teach-ins. It was never really a problem.
19:06:53 From Katherine Sogolow to Hosts and panelists : Thanks all for the various links!
19:08:17 From John Catalinotto : In the American Servicemen’s Union by 1968 and 1969 we were overwhelmed with invitations for teach ins, etc. There was no hostility from the movement toward GIs.
19:09:42 From Andy Berman to Hosts and panelists : Watch for upcoming new book about the progressive lawyers at US bases in Asia, Europe and the US supporting GI resistance "They Also Served"
19:10:24 From Josh Gould to Hosts and panelists : Let’s not forget Dave Cline, the Ft. Hood 43 and so many more.
19:10:50 From Mike Ferner : RIGHT ON, SUSAN SCHNALL!!! Stop the madness and the madmen!
19:11:14 From Andy Berman to Hosts and panelists : Susan, why won't you demand an end to RUSSIAN WEAPONS to Ukraine?
19:13:17 From Mike Tork : Good panel and discussion. As the saying goes, I didn’t serve I was used.
19:13:37 From Andy Berman to Hosts and panelists : Demanding that Ukraine not get the means to defend their country from the invasion is Putin's greatest desire.
19:14:41 From Lee Lee to Hosts and panelists : My chat glitched and was cleared. Please repost info re Wikipedia
19:14:43 From Mike Ferner : Tork! good to see ya! It's 4:20 my time. How about you?
19:15:00 From James M Branum : I hope the panelists can briefly mention the role that the GI resistance movement of the Vietnam era inspired and fueled anti-war pro-servicemember activism in the more recent era, particularly with the coffeehouses that were active around 2008-2012 or so. --- the big part of that was the Sir No Sir documentary, which inspired many of us.
I'll also mention that at Fort Hood we even had a undergroud newspaper for awhile (also inspired by what happened in the 1960's and 1970's).
Here are links to the issues that we put out:
https://ia802708.us.archive.org/9/items/zinelibrary-torrent/not-so-great-place-issue1.pdf
https://ia902708.us.archive.org/9/items/zinelibrary-torrent/not-so-great-place-issue2-final.pdf
19:15:25 From Michael Turek : I don't know if its still there but "Sir. No Sir" was available on Netflix.
19:15:36 From Nancy Wechsler : your local library might have them on Kanopy
19:15:52 From Ken Mayers to Hosts and panelists : Great seeing Susan, of course, as well as input from Ferner and Tork.
19:16:53 From Ken Mayers : Great seeing Susan, of course, as well as the Mikes — Tork and Ferner.
19:16:55 From James M Branum : @John Catalinotto, very excited to hear from someone who was involved with the American Servicemen's Union. I've been inspired by the story of its founding ever since reading the book "Up against the brass" which tells about Andy Stapp at Fort Sill, Oklahoma.
19:17:26 From Mike Ferner : Absolutely right, JJ! I learned early that the louder and more public I was, the better.
19:18:30 From Andy Berman to Hosts and panelists : JJ is right on! Using the outside media particularly towards the latter part of the war gave the antiwar movement significant power.
19:18:41 From R Griffin to Hosts and panelists : I have to go, and hate to just drop this here without staying for a discussion, but I want to say I cannot unite with a program to stop arms supplies to Ukraine.
19:18:52 From Josh Gould : Sir No Sir is on Netflix. In all the comments about the development of the G.I. Movement lets not forget how heroic the Vietnamese fought the war. The tet offensive had a tremendous impact.
19:19:13 From Ernest Muhly : Links to you Blog page and other resources?
19:20:29 From James M Branum : Here's some links about the more recent coffeehouses...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Under_the_Hood_Caf%C3%A9
19:20:32 From Mike Ferner : The madmen knew what they were doing having an all-volunteer military!
19:20:50 From Elise Lemire : So true, Susan!!!
19:21:27 From John Catalinotto : To check out all the GI publications, you can see the University of Wisconsin collection: https://content.wisconsinhistory.org/digital/collection/p15932coll8
19:21:48 From Mike Ferner : Damn right, Susan!!
19:21:52 From James M Branum : Here's an article about Coffee Strong, which was near Fort Lewis - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffee_Strong
19:23:08 From Michael Turek : Good point. I enlisted in the Air Force while still in high school in 1968 and became involved in the GI Movement in 1970.
19:23:09 From Rick Jahnkow to Hosts and panelists : Better than a draft would be requiring tax forms to show how much the payer is taxed to pay for U.S. wars. Also, I agree with Kathy's point about enlistees being more likely to speak out.
19:23:48 From James M Branum : There were also coffeehouses in the Iraq war era at Norfolk, VA and at Fort Drum, NY, but don't know as much about them.
19:24:01 From Camillo Mac Bica to Hosts and panelists : https://truthout.org/articles/rich-mans-war-and-a-poor-mans-fight/
19:24:05 From Andy Berman to Hosts and panelists : The greatest war crimes going on today are being done by the indicted war criminal Vladimir Putin, who the International Crimiinal Court has cited. Seeing only the US as the only source of war crimes is a weakness of the US peace community.
19:24:39 From John Catalinotto : During the Iraq occupation, someone who organized legal defense for GIs during Vietnam helped set up the Fort Drum coffee house. He died suddenly as all this was happening (I can’t remember his name)
19:26:22 From Lee Lee to Hosts and panelists : Susan exactly! As a high school teacher in poverty high school I can tell you that ROTC and recruiters were invited to our assemblies and other activities whereas they weren’t allowed at the white wealthy districts in our county. The wealthier parents would not allow it. Many of my students enlisted absolutely get jobs, skills, and an education.
19:27:26 From Mike Ferner : The empire's madmen (and admen) have so perverted young peoples' genuine interest in serving the greater good and being part of "something bigger than myself." Those are two admirable sentiments and the madmen are good at perverting it into recruiting. But that sense of good spirit could be satisfied with the old CCC-- Civilian Conservation Corps
19:28:18 From Andy Berman to Hosts and panelists : Thank you John for your remarks on Ukraine.
19:28:25 From James M Branum : Another element of the ending of the coffeehouses was the internet. Positively the internet provided another source of organizing (i.e. most of the newspapers we distributed at Fort Hood were actually read online, rather than in print form). Negatively, a lot of the troops didn't feel the need for an outlet to socialize off-post because the internet provided those social outlets.
19:28:54 From Dana Moss : Resisters from Russia should be given asylum in other countries. This is vital for peace!!!
19:29:24 From Mike Ferner : https://www.veteransforpeace.org/
19:29:27 From James M Branum : FYI - CCW and some other groups are working together to put together a training in December about ways to support Russian and Ukrainian war resisters, particularly those who are seeking asylum in the US. One of our speakers will be an attorney who has been successful in some of these asylum cases.
19:30:41 From Dana Moss : Thank you all for your incredible testimonies and continued work for peace, both in action and in spirit. See you on the 29th of Nov!
19:30:43 From Mike Ferner : THANK YOU!!!
19:30:49 From Linda Lamont : Thank you for an interesting discussion.
19:30:50 From Andy Berman to Hosts and panelists : No Susan, VFP's position on Ukraine is basically aligned with Russia....repeated the NATO started the war lie and demanding an end to weapons to Ukraine's defense but silence on Russian weapons for occupation.
19:30:57 From James M Branum : Thank you all so much for making this event happen. Very inspiring and hopeful to hear from those who have done so much for the sake of peace and liberating the troops.
19:31:01 From Michael Turek : Thank you and PEACE
19:31:02 From Mike Tork : Thanks
19:31:07 From Harold Appel to Hosts and panelists : Thanks all.
19:31:21 From Kamala Platt : Thank you all so much!
19:31:23 From Gloria Switzer : Thank you!! I'll tune in 11-29.
19:31:25 From rob boudewijn : Thanks
19:31:28 From Josh Gould to Hosts and panelists : Good to see you Paul. Josh Gould
19:31:42 From James M Branum : Peace, Shalom and Salaam!
19:31:49 From Lee Lee to Hosts and panelists : Incredible resources. Thank you peace
